Civil Party Tells of Torture During Detention

Today, former Sector 105 Secretary Sao Sarun finished his testimony and Civil Party Sun Vuth started his. Sao Sarun was questioned by Nuon Chea Defense Counsel Victor Koppe mainly about border conflicts with Vietnam and Vietnamese incursions, while Khieu Samphan Defense Counsel Anta Guissé focused her question on the authority and fate of specific cadres in Sector 105. Former soldier Sun Vuth told the Chamber about his time in Division 920 and his detention in a Security Center that lasted several months. He stated that he had been tortured and lost his parents and siblings during the Khmer Rouge regime.

 

Border conflicts with Vietnam

The Trial Chamber President Nil Nonn announced that Sao Sarun would be heard first via audiovisual link, after which the Civil Party 2-TCCP-1016 would be heard. All parties were present, with Nuon Chea following the proceedings from the holding cell. First, the floor was given to the Defense Team for Nuon Chea.

Defense Counsel Victor Koppe started his line of questioning by referring to yesterday’s testimony. He had said that he himself “had witnessed the border by the Vietnamese” along the border.[1] Mr. Koppe asked what invasion he witnessed. He replied that the fighting took place along the border and lasted “for a very long time”. It was a large scale attack and fighting. He said that the Vietnamese started the fighting. As a result, the liberation took place in January 1979. He learned through a report that the Vietnamese attacked Cambodia and witnessed it with his own eyes, he said. The fighting took place far away from the headquarters, so it was difficult for them to prevent the
sufighting. He did not know why they invaded and said that he did not know whether they wanted to conquer Cambodia.

Mr. Koppe read an excerpt of a statement by Son Sen, who had said that they did not attack the Vietnamese in Mondulkiri.[2] Mr. Sarun confirmed this. “They started to ambush us”, he said. While there was fighting, there were also negotiations. Division 920 initiated the negotiation. Ya held the first negotiation, and afterwards it was taken over by other leaders.

Mr. Koppe inquired about a group called Group 7, Sevens, or 7-Group.[3] The witness replied that he did not know. Mr. Koppe read an excerpt of a book by Stephen Heder, who said that the Group of 7 usually referred to Vietnamese in general.[4] When Mr. Koppe asked whether he knew if the group referred to the Vietnamese military, International Co-Prosecutor Nicholas Koumjian objected and said that Stephen Heder had referred to Vietnamese in general and did not make reference to military or troops. The witness did not know about the group. Mr. Koppe then pointed to another passage on the same page which, he said, made clear that Heder was referring to Vietnamese troops and not Vietnamese civilians and called the interjection by Mr. Koumjian a “nonsensical objection”

Next, Mr. Koppe read another excerpt of a Radiobroadcast Phnom Penh, which indicated that “the Vietnamese enemy still wants to annex Cambodian territory” and referred to spying and sabotage activities.[5] The witness replied that he could not find the espionage in his village.

Mr. Koppe referred to the summary of a statement. This person had said that Kham Phoun brought Vietnamese spies into the country.[6] Mr. Sarun replied that there was a discussion in a meeting during which it was said that food was brought to Vietnamese. However, he did not witness this himself. Mr. Koppe then asked whether it was mainly the tasks of Division 920 and 801 to deal with the continuous attacks. The witness answered that he did not understand the Division 920 or the other division, since it was the division who had the soldiers and not the sector.

Mr. Koppe turned back to the issue of the Group of 7, and referred to a telegram by Sophea who talked about planning to ambush the 7-Group attackers in Pech Chenda.[7] The witness replied that he did not remember well.

Mr. Koppe moved on and inquired about a congress of 1978.[8] He asked whether it was an anniversary of the CPK. He replied that it was the “big congress” and participants came from all over the country, including civilians and the military. Mr. Koppe asked whether it celebrated the 18^th anniversary of the founding of the CPK, whether it was in September and whether it lasted a few days, which the witness confirmed.[9] ‘Mr. Koppe referred to an excerpt he had read to the excerpt Alexander Hinton and asked whether it was correct that when referring to Vietnamese, he made a distinction between the Vietnamese civilians and using the word yuon only when referring to the Vietnamese foreign policy or military.[10] He could not remember well whether Pol Pot talked to him about this in person. He recounted that Pol Pot said that they should not hate Vietnamese people, but only the Vietnamese aggressor. Mr. Koppe asked whether that was also his understand. Mr. Sarun answered that some people said that yuon are the aggressors, while others say that the Vietnamese are the aggressors.

Mr. Koppe read an excerpt of a speech by Pol Pot that the witness had also attended, during which he had talked about Vietnam and its intention to take Cambodian territory.[11] Mr. Sarun could remember that Pol Pot made this speech. He agreed with them, “because they had a clear policy of absorbing Cambodian territory”. Mr. Koppe inquired whether preparations were made to counter invasions at this time. The witness confirmed this. He said that Pol Pot made instructions to prepare themselves for the invasion of Vietnam. After the speech, “we prepared our soldiers based on our own capability to we had. In fact, we had very small numbers of troops.” He could not make the assumption that the Cambodians had a chance against Vietnam, he recounted, since Vietnam was bigger and Cambodian troops were not well-trained.

During the speech, Pol Pot made clear instructions that amnesty needed to be granted to a few people who needed to be re-fashioned. “And we needed to strengthen our solidarity and not sell our country to the foreigners”. He further said that Pol Pot stated that “we made friendship with other countries”. They “publicized” these guidelines to their people and soldiers. He learned about this guideline after the congress. Mr. Koppe then wanted to know whether he remembered that betraying the party meant to collaborate with the Vietnamese.[12] He confirmed this and said that it referred to those who conducted sabotage and destroyed the territorial land of the country.

 

Re-education

Mr. Koppe quoted Son Sen, who had classified people into three categories of enemies in October 1976.[13] He replied that the method was to first educate and then to re-fashion people. He could not recall an incident where 100 division 920 soldiers were released. Nor had he heard of an incident when Division 920 soldiers were arrested, sent to Phnom Penh on 23 November 1976 and released on the 26^th of that month.[14] He did not know how many people were sent back after re-education. Ta San mentioned re-education, but the witness himself did not know.

Mr. Koppe wanted to know whether the 1978 amnesty guideline was a confirmation of existing policy or whether it was a change. He answered that it was the policy of the regime “not to arrest people arbitrarily, unless there was a clear analysis and judgment”. This policy was confirmed after the liberation of Phnom Penh. “I am not siding with Pol Pot”, he said, and explained that it was not allowed to arrest people arbitrarily. At this point, the President adjourned the hearing for a break.

 

Telegrams

After the break, Mr. Koppe turned back to the radiobroadcast and referred to two telegrams that the witness had written.[15] The first telegram dated 23 April 1978 and talked about yuon spies in Tes. The second telegram mentioned the attacks by Vietnamese forces. He replied that the division reported this to him. The Division 920 commander sent the telegram to him. Mr. Koppe said that it was his understanding that Division 920 was a Center division and reported directly to the standing staff. Mr. Koppe asked whether he reported the same incident. Mr. Sarun said that they made reports. They summarized the events related to the yuon attacks. Mr. Koppe asked whether the attacks in the telegram was an example of the attacks discussed in the 9178 Radio Phnom Penh broadcast. He replied that they made a report based on practical information. They sent the report to Phnom Penh and the radio station broadcasted the information about when the attacks occurred. He said that there were frequent encroachments on the border. At some border points, there was severe fighting. They attacked the base of Division 920. He asked whether it was true that he always wrote his telegram to “respected brother” or “beloved brother” and never used names, which the witness confirmed.

Mr. Koppe inquired whether he had ever in any telegram seen the names Brother Number 1 or Brother Number 2. He replied that this was correct. The division level addressed them as Brother Number 1 or Brother Number 2. He addressed Nuon Chea and a few others, but never sent letter to Vorn Vet. Mr. Koppe asked who Brother 81 or Brother 87 was, which the witness did not know.

 

Meetings after 17 April 1975

Mr. Koppe turned to his last set of questions. He had indicated in his previous testimony in 2012 that either Pol Pot or Nuon Chea had said that money would be used again and that people would be returned to Phnom Penh shortly after the evacuation. ^[16] The witness confirmed having said this. They said that money would be reintroduced in 1980. This year also applied to the re-population of Phnom Penh. He also said that vegetables would be re-opened. Moreover, vegetables were sold around Central Market. They were invited to the meeting at the Soviet School after the 17 April 1975 liberation. There was one meeting at Olympic Stadium after the liberation. Cadres from all over the country were called to that meeting. He confirmed that there were several meetings, one of which was held at the Olympic Stadium. He did not know Heng Samrin. Mr. Koppe asked whether he had heard of the use of the term komchat, which the witness denied. “I only heard that people had to be organized to do farming”. With this, Mr. Koppe finished his line of questioning and the floor was granted to the defense team for Khieu Samphan.

 

Phnom Kraol and district offices

Khieu Samphan Defense Counsel Anta Guissé turned to Phnom Kraol. He confirmed having heard that there was the Phnom Kraol Security Center. Sophea was in charge of security and member of the sector committee. That person was reassigned and became member of the sector committee. She asked whether Division 920 worked with Sophea. They cooperated with each other, Mr. Sarun said, in terms of military tasks and affairs.

She said that Bun Loeng Chauy had mentioned Maing, Sarun’s younger brother. He replied that he did not know about Maing’s involvement in arrests. “I did not try to hide what he was doing”. There were only two battalions in Mondulkiri. Ms. Guissé wanted to know whether Sophea had an office. He replied that it was located in Phnom Kraol. He heard of K-11, which he said was located on Phnom Kraol and was Sophea’s office.

She then asked whether he knew K-17 and if yes who it belonged to. He answered that it was the sector office. Ms. Guissé asked whether Laing was the head of the sector whose office he went to and in whose office he saw three people detained. He denied this, so Ms. Guissé asked to clarify. He recounted that two or three prisoners were detained at a Security Center but not at K-17. He was working “as usual” when he saw these prisoners. He was visiting that location when there were “two or three, four or five inmates” and they were working as usual. Ta Laing had overall supervision of this Security Center. Ta Laing had overall supervision of the army and was part of the sector committee. Ta Sophea was also under his supervision. The soldiers were from the sector. He never heard the name Bun Loeng Chauy when he was in the division.

Ms. Guissé said that this witness had talked about the problem of reprisals between two groups: Kham Phoun against Laing and subsequent arrests.[17] Ms. Guissé wanted to know whether he knew about this vengeance between the two groups. The witness denied knowledge of this. She said that Bun Loeng Chauy had mentioned the witness Sarun, saying that Sarun was in charge.[18] Mr. Sarun replied that “I’m telling the truth, I’m not hiding anything. I’m telling the truth . . . I do not know anything about arrests”.  There were meetings, but he did not know more about this. “I’m not telling lies, I’m telling the truth out of my heart”.

 

Detentions

Turning to her last subject, she referred to one of his interviews in which he had said that there were only releases while he was at the sector committee. He had said that he took the decisions without the consultation of the center, since that was his “right”. In this interview he had also said that Vieng (alias Kham alias Run) was the successor of Sophea.[19] He answered that Ta Laing was already deceased when he was there, so “there was no reason for the detention” to continue. “There was no reason to detain”. Someone had arrested a person for an issue with kitchen utensils, which he thought was not a good reason to detain someone, so he asked them to be released, since kitchen

As for what occurred within families regarding small conflicts, “I treated [those matters] as small things”. He released them, because he did not consider “those matters as big matters”. He remembered the person Sophea, who was the chief of the battalion. She wanted to know whether he remembered the person called Vieng as the successor of Sophea, which the witness confirmed. Ms. Guissé concluded her line of questioning.

The President thanked the witness for his testimony. He then ruled on the Prosecutor’s request to hear witness 2-TCW-1017 in relation to Phnom Kraol.[20] The oral submissions had been heard on March 28 2016. Based on information by neighbors, this witness has moved to Thailand. Despite having received the telephone number, the witness could not be reached. The request to the Thai government might take “some time” and there was thus not sufficient information about the witness. The Chamber therefore rejected the request to hear this witness. At this point, the President adjourned the hearing for lunch break.

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New Civil Party: Sun Vuth

After the break, the President invited Civil Party 2-TCCP-1016 into the courtroom. Khieu Samphan Defense Counsel Anta Guissé wanted to know which witness will be appearing following the Civil Party tomorrow. The President announced that the Chamber would inform the parties today about the witnesses for next week. “The Chamber is doing its utmost that hearings are held to the maximum”.

Civil Party Sun Vuth was born in 1957 and lives in Oddar Meanchey Province. The first party to be given the floor were the Civil Parties. Civil Party Lawyer Lor Chunthy from Legal Aid Cambodia wanted to know in which year he joined the army. He replied that he joined it in 1974. The Khmer Rouge sent him to be a soldier. He did not join voluntarily. After having been stationed at Pou District, he was stationed at Phnom Penh. He was also stationed at Prasat Mountain before being moved elsewhere. He was also dispatched to the border. Ta Chhin was his superior as the commander of Division 920. Ta Chuoy was the deputy. He was assigned to protect the border.

He was the personal messenger of Ta Chhin and was working in a company later. He was a messenger for two months. After the liberation of Phnom Penh, Ta Chhin was returned to Mondulkiri, during which time the Civil Party was assigned to be chief of a company.

Mr. Chunthy sought clarification and asked whether he was sent for participating in and attending the military session in Phnom Penh, which Mr. Vuth confirmed. He was to the north of Pochentong to attend the training for one month. After this, he was sent to Kratie to be refashioned. After leaving Kratie, he was posted in Mondulkiri and was sent to protect the border. He was asked to “install spies” at the border.

There was an event when his leader was called to attend a training session. “And they were all taken to be killed” on the accusation of betraying Angkar. One month later, all soldiers were called and told to be cautious, since they were affiliated with their commanders’ network. “They accused us . . . and later on, I was arrested, and I did not know the reason why I was arrested. I was the one who respected Angkar and complied the plan of Angkar . . . I was loyal to Angkar.” They accused him that he counter-attacked Angkar. There were Ta Chhin, Soy, Kuoy, Nheng, and another cadre in his division and were sent to Phnom Penh. He heard that they were sent to Tuol Sleng. He put forward that “My commanders never said anything against Angkar”. Ta Sarun, or Ta 05, sent their forces to arrest soldiers in Division 920. They sent their own troop to replace them. “I was tortured severely after my arrest” and he was not aware of the reasons for his arrest. They only accused him of betraying Angkar. He was blindfolded and taken away. “I felt so painful for that action, because I did not betray Angkar at all”. When the blindfold was taken away, he saw that he was in a prison next to the stream Au Chebar in Koh Nhek. There was a hill nearby. The building was ten meters long and five to six meters wide. There were three rooms in the building. He was detained alone in the room to the south initially, but two days later two more detainees were placed with him. His ankles were shackled and the hands were cuffed. They shackled both legs initially by putting them through a whole in a wooden plank. Later, only one leg was shackled and one hand-cuffed. The building was made from wooden poles dug knee-deep into the ground. The roof was made of thatched. The wall was made from wooden plank, but there were some gaps between the planks. There was another shelter for the guards to live and there was an interrogation room. He could also hear the voices of female detainees, but could not figure out how many of them there were. He was taken out from the prison to a hut where he was interrogated. “They actually shocked me with an electricity cable and I lost my consciousness. And I thought that I died after I fell unconsciousness. And after I regained my consciousness, they shocked me again”. They interrogated and beat him. He did not know how to answer their questions, since Ta Say and Ta Chhin never told him to betray Angkar. The hut where he was interrogated was around fifty meters away from where he was detained.

They asked him whether he betrayed Angkar, that he followed the traitors and that he collaborated with the Vietnamese. They threatened him that if he did not confess he would be killed. “But I did not know how to respond, since I did not know anything about betrayal.” After he was arrested, he was not given any food for the whole day. The following day, he was given “very little rice”. It was “the size of my risk”. They put some water in a coconut shell for him to drink.

 

Escape

One night, his parents told him in his dream that the local spirits would help him and that he should flee, because he would be killed the next day. When he woke up, he managed to release the cuff around his hand and somehow managed to free his ankles as well. He helped his other two detainees and they could flee. The other two detainees had only one of their ankles shackled, “so we ran away”. One of the detainees still had the shackle around the ankle, but they managed to get rid of it around five hundred meters away. The guards were sleeping around ten meters away at the time. The guards, including Pheng, would have killed them otherwise, Mr. Vuth said. When he was beaten up, he had told them that he had not done anything wrong.

Mr. Chunthy asked who Pheng was and what his involvement was in the prison. Pheng was a group chief in the old division. When he was transferred from Division 801, previous chiefs were replaced by new chiefs, as some chiefs were sent for study sessions. They needed the former chiefs later again to fight the Vietnamese. He fled to the forest until 1986. When he returned, he heard about the death of his family. Before 1975, his father was a first deputy of a commune during the Republic Regime. During the regime, his father knew that “they were trying to get rid of the capitalist group”. His mother went to Pailin to meet with his father when she heard this. His father refused to return. His mother told him that if they did not return, the rest of the family would be killed. Two days after the arrival, his father was sent to a study session. Everyone who was sent there was killed and never returned. After his father had been arrested, his two siblings were arrested. One of his siblings was a former Lon Nol soldier and had been a second lieutenant. He was sent for a study session and disappeared. One other sibling had been a teacher and disappeared. The same fate occurred to his third sibling. He also lost some cousins. He learned about this in 1986 when he returned. He did not hear anything about them when he was living at the border area. “I served Angkar with my full heart”, but still his parents and siblings were killed. “And every time I think of that, I want to kill myself.” His relatives were sent away and killed in 1976.

Mr. Chunthy then gave the floor to his colleague National Lead Co-Lawyer Pich Ang.

 

Cadres in the division and detention center

As for cadres in the division, he recounted that the chief was Ta San, who was also known as Brother 06 and Ta Leu, who was in charge of logistics and part of an ethnic minority. They took up their duties after Ta Chhin and Ta Say had been arrested. He confirmed knowing Ta Rong. This person was also arrested when the Civil Party was accused of betraying the party. He was arrested at a later stage than Ta Say. They were sent for a study session in Phnom Penh and disappeared ever since. He did not know what happened to them. Ta San and Ta Leu took control of Division 920. There was Comrade Saroeun (not the same as the commander of the military), Comrade Lay and Comrade Maing who was in charge of a battalion.

Ms. Guissé objected to a question about Phnom Kraol Security Center, since the witness had not mentioned the name before and it was also not mentioned in the Civil Party application. Mr. Ang rephrased his question and asked under which military unit the detention center that he was imprisoned at was. He said that it belonged to Division 920. He said that he was not fully familiar with the structure of the division.

There were regiment 91, 92 and 93. He was under the division and in charge of a company. He did not remain with that division permanently, since he was deployed to protect the borders. In early 1976, there were “sporadic problems along the border”, but they were not serious. There were serious clashes in 1977, after which they claimed that they had a part of the territory in Koh Nhek. “And they still insisted that they had territory on the other side”, although the border was demarked by the O’Chhbar stream. Angkar instructed them to smash them.  Mr. Ang then referred to his document, in which it was stated that the stream was called Au Le Poeu, while he had said that the stream was called O’Chhbar stream.[21] He replied that he had made a mistake when saying that he stream was called Au Le Poeu.

Marriages

He was instructed to marry by Angkar, but protested. He was successful in his protest, Mr. Vuth said. “I don’t know how it happened, but I was successful in my protest”. He assumed that it might have been because he was young at the time, and marriages were usually arranged for people who were at least 30 years old. The same applied to women, who were supposed to be at least 28. He was not punished. The other combatants were arranged to be married.

Detention

Mr. Ang wanted to know how long he was detained there. He replied that he was imprisoned “for quite a long time” until mid-July, which would amount to around six months in 1977. The Vietnamese troops arrived around a year after he fled. He did not know about the conditions that the female prisoners were detained under, nor did he know the offenses for which they were held imprisoned.

At this point, the President adjourned the hearing for a break.

 

Training and placement at the border

After the break, the President notified the Parties on the request by the Nuon Chea Defense Team to delay the start of the hearing of witnesses and Civil Parties in relation of S-21 until all witnesses and Civil Parties have been heard with regards to Phnom Kraol and Au Kanseng and in any event after the Khmer New Year holiday. The Chamber granted the request and decided not to begin hearing witnesses or Civil Parties until after the Khmer New Year holiday. At most, two witnesses will be heard next week.[22] The floor was then handed to the Co-Prosecutors.

Senior Assistant Prosecutor Dale Lysak wanted to know who conducted his training in Phnom Penh and whether he received any political education by Son Sen. He did not remember the names of the people, but Son Sen came once every two weeks. Mr. Lysak referred to his Civil Party statement, in which he had said that he was afraid of being killed if not succeeding in the training.[23] The Civil Party explained that he was afraid of being killed, because they would be accused of betraying Angkar if not putting a big enough effort into the training.

Mr. Lysak then wanted to know whether it was correct that his unit was not assigned to either Regiment 91, 92 or 93. He replied that he was within the division part and his company belonged to the division. Thus, his company was flexible in his mobility.

He was assigned by Ta Chhin to be based at the borderland area. They were not stationed in one place, but were assigned to defend the borders at different areas. The Division 920 main office was located in Koh Nhek. He went there once every month or every two months, since he spent most of the time on the battlefield.

Mr. Lysak inquired about Region 105 and asked whether he knew where Ta Sophea, Ta Laing and other cadres’ offices were located. He replied that he was not certain where the offices were located.

Mr. Lysak then waned to now where the location was that he was detained at in relation to Ta Chhin’s previous office. He replied that Ta Chhin did not organize the prison. Ta Chhin was transferred from Division 801 to take charge of Division 920. It was near O’Chhbar stream next to a small mountain that had the shape of a turtle cover. The detention center was around half a kilometer away from each other.

Turning to the arrests of Ta Chhin and other people from Division 920, Mr. Lysak wanted to know how he had learned that Ta Chhin and Ta Say had been arrested. He answered that he heard that he was arrested, because he was accused of betraying Angkar and was the “network of yuon”. He was accused of hating the Angkar regime. He was not certain whether he really betrayed Angkar or not. He had never heard him say that they should betray Angkar.

It was at most a month between Ta Chhin’s arrest and Mr. Vuth’s arrest. Other people were also arrested, including Comrade Khol, Comrade Non, and Comrade Yean. They were part of the company.

Mr. Lysak said that evidence suggested that Ta Chhin entered S-21 on 16 March 1977 and deputy secretary Chhuy alias Suy entered it on 17 February 1977. [24]

His arrest took place during the harvesting season in November or December. Mr. Lysak wanted to know whether he knew the three people who came to arrest him and pointed guns at him. He He replied that they were Comrade Pheng, Bay and Soy alias Say. The three people came from the same division as his, namely Division 920. The people who ordered the arrest were from Division 801 and he did not know these.

Mr. Lysak quoted a witness who had worked at K-11.[25] Mr. Lysak wanted to know whether any sector cadres were involved in the purge of Division 920 cadres in addition to the Division 801 people. Mr. Vuth answered that he did not know much about this. He knew that people were sent from Division 801 to take charge of Division 920. As for the structure and process of the arrests, he could not give much detail. He did not know how the other cadres were arrested and only knew that they were sent to study sessions.

Mr. Lysak referred to Regiment 91, 92 and 93 and wanted to know who the commanders of these regiments were. He replied that he knew the commander of Regiment 91 and one individual from 92. One individual was called Yat who was in Regiment 91. Soeun was in charge of Regiment 92. Mr. Lysak read another document dated April 6 1977 from Ta San sent to Son Sen (as Brother 89). Ta San had talked about several people and a handwritten note saying “arrest them”.[26] Mr. Lysak inquired whether the person Ta Sorn was the Deputy of Regiment 92. At this point, Mr. Ang interjected and said that the Khmer pronunciation should be San and On. Soeun was the commander of Regiment 92.

Mr. Lysak said that on the 11 April 1977, Regiment 92 Secretary San entered S-21.[27] The wives “felt pity” when their husbands were arrested.

 

Back to the detention

Mr. Lysak asked whether he was detained for one year or half a year if he was arrested in late 1977. He replied that he was detained for three months and ten days. Walls blocked him from seeing other prisoners at the detention. There were three or four guards.

Mr. Lysak referred to a witness who had worked at Phnom Kraol and described the prison that was made of wooden logs and had a thatched roof.[28] Mr. Lysak wanted to know whether this sounded similar to the building he was detained in. He replied that the detention center was made out of wood. The roof was thatched and made of leaves. There was no fence. There was a small hut where hammocks could sleep. The wall of the prison was made of big logs. It was a provisional building and not built to host prisoners on a permanent basis. There was no water reservoir, but a small stream that had water during all seasons. He was detained to the south of the divisional office. The location of the detention center was around five hundred meters away from the office. It was provisional to house prisoners. Prisoners might have been kept there for around one month, “after which they would be sent away to be killed.”

He was interrogated by three or four interviewers. He was electrocuted sometimes. “After a few rounds of electric shocks, I became unconscious” and they did not receive any confession from him. They also beat him seriously. He felt “sad”, because he “had never betrayed Angkar”. He was interrogated once or two times a day after four days or one week of having been detained. “But how could I answer the question, since I had not betrayed Angkar?” The people came from Division 801. He was electrocuted with a 108 or 70 mA battery. He thought that the prison was a mobile prison. They spent “much time” interrogating him. One time, he was interrogated the whole day. It did not happen on a continuous basis and did not interrogate him on a daily basis. Sometimes they would say that they had received the order to get his confession. They had told him that if he answered he would be able to survive. He did not know what to answer and thought that he was die. He did not know whether the people violated the instruction or whether the instruction from Angkar was to beat him.

He alleged that “the leaders, they had to be responsible for the actions. Leaders should have known about the welfare of the people. The Prime Minister, I believe, is well aware of the welfare and livelihood of the people.” If he had been a high ranking official, he would have known about the livelihood of the people, he said. “Although I am a good man, I would commit other offenses” and went on “if you were me, you would feel unhappy”.

Mr. Lysak asked him to describe how he was beaten when being interrogated. He replied that he was beaten with a club that was “as big as my arm”. They beat him two or three times and he lost consciousness. Each time they beat him, he lost consciousness. After a while, he regained consciousness, so they beat him again to extract his consciousness.

Judge Jean-Marc Lavergne wanted to provide the list of soldiers from Division 920 who were released from S-21 to the witness.[29] The request was granted. Mr. Koppe said that the list contained 100 names and it might be more fruitful to give him the list now, provide him with the opportunity to study the list and return to the matter tomorrow morning. Mr. Lysak said that they had already tracked some of the names on the list and some of the people were in fact sent to Prey Sar and many of them sent back to S-21 and killed at a later stage. Mr. Koppe said that he was aware of these documents. The President asked the witness whether he could read and write, to which the witness answered that he could not read much, since his eye sight was poor. Mr. Ang requested the court officer to read the document for the party.

The President adjourned the hearing. It will continue tomorrow at 9 am with the testimony of Civil Party Son Vuth. There is no reserve witness scheduled.

[1] Testimony of Sao Sarun, March 29 2016, at 15:14

[2] E3/221, Minutes of the Meeting of the Standing Committee, 00182696 (EN), 00386178 (FR), 0000813 (KH).

[3] E3/923; E3/1101; E3/1118; E3/8377; E3/1030.

[4] E3/1664, Stephen Heder, “Khmer Rouge Purges in Mondulkiri”, page 91, 00397664 (EN).

[5] E3/1360, at 00169884 (EN).

[6] E3/7960.

[7] E3/1030.

[8] E3/404, at 00403235 (EN), 00398480 (KH), 00484199 (FR).

[9] E3/215.

[10] E3/215, at 00064610 (KH), 00524077 (FR), 00488626 (EN).

[11] E3/215, at 00488621 (EN), 00064595 (KH), 00524072-73 (FR).

[12] E3/384, at 00348373 (EN), 00345904 (KH), 00354237 (KH).

[13] E3/13, at 00940354 (EN), 00052413-14 (KH), 00344983 (FR).

[14] E3/8648.

[15] E3/937; E3/1072.

[16] Testimony of Sao Sarun, Trial Day 70, June 6 2012, at 13:42.

[17] Testimony of Bun Loeng Chauy, March 29 2016, after 10:03.

[18] Ibid.,10:08.

[19] E3/383, at 00361766 (FR), 00350266 (EN), 00345915 (KH).

[20] E390.

[21] E3/6760A, at p. 1.

[22] E319/43.

[23] E3/6760.

[24] E3/342, OCP Revised S-21 Prisoner List, at number 5118 and 1966 respectively.

[25] E3/8651, at 00042261 (KH), 01156493 (EN).

[26] E3/1199, paragraph 2.

[27] E3/2285, List of 19 September 1977, number 35 at 00009083-85 (KH), 00873168 (EN).

[28] E3/7705, at 00236724 (KH), 00239506 (EN), 00276987 (FR).

[29] E3/8648.