Accusations Against Cadres

Witness Cheal Choeun concluded his testimony today by giving information about arrests of cadres that followed allegations that they had plotted against the Khmer Rouge. Anonymous witness 2-TCW-1037 gave, under questioning of mostly the Nuon Chea Defense Team, information about accusations that he had heard regarding plots against the Khmer Rouge leadership.

 

Buddhism under the Khmer Rouge

The testimony of witness Cheal Choeun continued. International Co-Prosecutor Nicholas asked when he studied to be a monk. He replied that he ordained in 1970 and he studied in a pagoda school for three years prior to this. He said he was still a Buddhist. He left the monkhood in 1975. The Ministry of Religion of the Khmer Rouge held meetings in pagodas and instructed monks to work in the rice fields and plant cotton, since they would no longer receive support. His mother was evacuated in 1972. “I missed my mother, so I went to look for her”. He met members of the Ministry of Religion did not allow him to return and kept him in a pagoda. He was questioned and said that he came from Bang Khna Pagoda. They let him to Prey Kanduot Pagoda, which was around 30 kilometers away from the village. All monks were treated the same, he said. No monk protested when they were disrobed and there were no more monks in the area anymore.

 

Soldiers

Soldiers were evacuated, but he did not know whether they were told where they were going to. The soldiers were disarmed. The solders did not know whether they would survive, and those who fled were not chased after. The others were all killed. They were all in military uniforms. He fired a weapon at this instance. “I was ordered to fire the gun. In fact, those soldiers had fallen, because they were shot by people behind me. At that time, my body was shaken, because I was so shocked to witness such an event”. He denied ever having been involved in shooting a gun again. He and his unit were sent to work at Moung. “We wanted to make a revolution, and I questioned Doeun, whom I knew, and I asked him “Brother, why did they do that to the soldiers?” Doeun asked him why he asked this question. Mr. Cheal Choeun stopped questioning since then.

 

Railroads

Other members of other groups were also sent to work at the railway. It was in Battambang. He did not know where Doeun was sent to later. He was the head of Unit 35. He did not know where the train ran from and to. He was told to build it between Battambang and Khbal Tboung. He saw the train running on a daily basis. It also stopped at a station in Battambang. He saw the train being unloaded sometimes, but not passengers being transported. When Mr. Koumjian asked whether he saw people from the East Zone being transported, Nuon Chea Defense Counsel objected and said it was outside the scope of Case 002/02.  The objection was overruled. He said that he did not see people being unloaded and only saw rice and salt.

 

He saw Chinese guests at some point. The livelihood of railway workers was “not very good” he said. They did not have enough rice to eat and had to get up at 4 am to work. “But we could survive with such meal”. He did not know whether railway workers had better living conditions.

Mr. Koumjian played an audio recording. There was some confusion, because it was only played in Khmer. The tape was apparently difficult to translate, but he said that he made bombs. He denied ever having built bombs. Ms. Koumjian gave the floor to his Cambodian colleague Song Chorvoin. She said that it seemed like he indicated that he made bombs, and not railways, but he denied this again.

Mr. Koumjian moved on and asked whether he got married during the regime, which Mr. Choeun confirmed. He said he did not want to get married again. Pheap was his direct supervisor and told him that Angkar instructed him to get married. “I did not dare to speak, because when I heard that it was the [determination] of Angkar, I was afraid. I was afraid to die.” Pheap’s family members said that Pheap had been arrested and disappeared. They were not allowed to stay near the station when a “special train” went through. Instead of working at the railroad, they went to clear the grass instead. During the regime, he had not heard of Nuon Chea. He heard of Khieu Samphan when he was a student in 1968 or 1969. He was not allowed to attend meetings and said he never attended political study sessions. Their supervisors would give them instructions following the sessions. With this, Mr. Koumjian concluded his line of questioning. The Civil Party Lawyers did not have any questions.

 

 

Authority Structure

After the break, Nuon Chea Defense Counsel Victor Koppe asked whether the witness could read and write. He replied that he could both to “some extent.” Mr. Koppe then showed an organigram that showed the names Kleng, Keo and Ren. He said he saw the names, but did not understand.[1] Mr. Koppe asked whether the Ren he had mentioned was on top of the leadership or further down, as indicated on the organigram. He replied that he did not know which division Ren belonged to. He said that he had not known their names beforehand. Mr. Koppe pointed to number 3, Chhorn alias Choeun, and asked whether he had known this person, which he had not. Judge Jean-Marc Lavergne asked who the author of the organigram was, which Mr. Koppe did not know. Mr. Koppe said it may have been a post-1979 notebook.

There was then a discussion about an e-mail sent by Robert Lemkin. Mr. Koppe said that a mention was made of Division Commander Cheal Choeun. Mr. Koppe asked whether he was present when the filmmakers interviewed Chan Samuth or Chan Savuth.[2] He replied that he was not aware of this. Mr. Koppe asked whether he recalled talking to the investigators about Chan Savuth, which the witness confirmed. He replied that he met him while working at the railway station and that Savuth was from Rumlek. He said he was from Kampuchea Krom and that people from there were purged. “We realized his parents had been killed.” He denied that Chan Savuth was ever a medic. “He told me not to tell anyone that he [was] from Kampuchea Krom.” He said that Savuth never had any medical training and that he met him when he joined the railway workforce. Mr. Koppe asked whether it was Mr. Choeun’s understanding that Thet Sambath and Robert Lemkin never spoke to him about Chan Savuth and Ruos Nhim. The confidential memo was re-classified as public. Mr. Koppe read out the e-mail that the memo referred to and said that it indicated that Robert Lemkin thought that Cheal Choeun was “incorrectly named” in the book. Mr. Koumjian said that Lemkin had referred to confidentiality rules and that it was the same person. There was a discussion about this.

The witness then explained that he accompanied the filmmakers to Thailand once. The rest of the Nuon Chea Defense Team’s questioning was held in closed session, since it referred to another witness.

The Khieu Samphan Defense Team did not have any questions, since they believed it to be of minor importance for Case 002/02. Mr. Cheal Choeun’s testimony was concluded. Trial Chamber President Nil Nonn thanked and dismissed him.

 

New Witness: 2-TCW-1037

After the break, 2-TCW-1037 was heard. Before his testimony, however an oral ruling on a 87(3) and 87 (4) request was made. Documents one to seven were admitted, and document 8 denied.[3] Consequently, the Co-Prosecutors’ request to admit three more documents was moot.

Next, testimony of 2-TCW-1037 was heard. Since it was part of another case, the Chamber had categorized it into Category A and protected the confidentiality of the proceedings by using only the pseudonym.

The floor was granted to the Nuon Chea Defense Team who asked him about his general background before the Khmer Rouge took power. He remained in the revolution until 1975. Between 1970 and 1975 he initially joined the army to liberate the nation, he said. Three years later, he left the army and he received a new responsibility. He was in charge of economics and logistics in in a zone. He started working in that role from 1973 onwards. His main responsibility to control the food and ammunition. He had to distribute food and ammunition to the battlefield.[4] He said he was not the chairman of the logistics and economics section of the zone, but the chief of the department that was responsible for bringing ammunition and food to the battlefield.

The commander of Division 2, he said, was Ren. Another person was called Ta Hom and another one was called Ta Kleng. Mr. Koppe then presented the organigram that had been subject to discussion earlier during the day.[5] Mr. Koppe pointed to the three names Kleng, Keo and Ren. He said he could clearly remember Kleng and Ren, but not the other name. Ren was in the division headquarters, while Roeun was in the regiment. Mr. Koppe said that on the list the names Sarin alias Sam, Nheu, Choern could be seen, and asked whether they sounded familiar. The first and second division headquarters were located along National Road 5 and National Road 10, respectively. The division headquarter was located in Treng Village. After 1975, he saw the commander of the division and regiments at the location when they held meetings.[6] Soldiers at Division 2 were at Pailin, sugar factories, and more. Mr. Koppe asked whether he had heard of a location called Psar Treng. He said he knew this place. He also confirmed knowing Sdau Village. He also knew Vey Chab Mountain, which was located in Rotanak-Mondol District in Battambang, he said.

Before 1975, Hom was in charge of the sector army and was transferred to the Zone Army later. He was also the deputy of Kleng.

Mr. Koppe sought leave to present a photograph of a witness (2-TCW-1036) to the Chamber, which the President allowed.[7] The witness did not recognize the person. The Hom he knew was arrested in 1975 and arrested by Pol Pot. He confirmed that he thought that this person was not alive anymore. Mr. Koppe asked whether he knew a person called Thot Thoeut. He replied that Thot Thoeut held quite a senior position and passed away less than a year ago. He replied that the person on the photograph looked similar to the witness himself, and that he just had darker complexion.

Mr. Koppe then inquired about Ta Van, but he said that he did not know this person. Mr. Koppe said that the person was Chief of Commerce then. The witness corrected his pronunciation and said it was Ta Varn.[8] The witness recounted that he used to attend political study sessions. He confirmed knowing Ta Heng Thiep alias Tep.

The cadres who were in the leadership in the Zone Military were accused of having connections with the CIA. Ham was accused of colluding in transporting firearms and ammunition for the purposes of attacking. Mr. Koppe read an excerpt of the witness’s statement, in which he had talked about rebellions. He confirmed having told the investigators this.

Mr. Koppe inquired who the driver was who transported ammunition. He replied that the driver lived with Ruos Nhim and was close to him. His name, he said, was San. Mr. Koppe asked how this plan had been leaked and who “the agents of the Center” were that he had mentioned to the investigators. He answered that he heard about this through the supervisor. “They told us that they received the information from the messenger.” This messenger belonged to Ta Nhim. As a result, “they were purged”. He saw four or five messengers who went out with Ta Nhim. He learned about the plans later on, but the plans had not materialized yet. “They did not have a clear structure”. He received information that there was an attack against Pol Pot. He could not recall the names. “I don’t know where they live now.” People from the Southwest Zone told him about the plan. Mr. Koppe asked who the soldier was who heard the soldiers say that the zone would rebel like the East Zone. The witness said he could not recall properly. [9] He said that he worked at a dam at the time and that thousands of people worked there.

The person who told him about Ta Varn was called Ta Sum. Both were taken away and killed.

 

Accusations of Rebellions

After the break, there was a discussion about an application by the Co-Prosecution to admit notes that apparently had served as a basis for the expert’s PhD. The Nuon Chea Defense Team submitted that it was “way too late”, since the notes had already been mentioned in a book and were therefore not new evidence. The questioning was then taken up.

Soun had said that the reason for Varn’s arrest was that he was blamed for colluding with an “illegal act”. He allegedly had equipped illegal forces.[10]

Ta Keo, alias Khorn, had told him to be “careful”, since politics were “unforgiving.” He observed that Northwest People observed “their own Northwest People”. Following this, the Southwest People started arrested the new Northwest People. He did not hear about division troops hiding medicine in warehouses.[11] “However, there was an accusation that fuel was hidden, or that fuel was dumped into the river”. He did not have any concrete information about this. Mr. Koppe read an excerpt of Kiernan’s book, who quoted Thai intelligence: “Angkar crushed the attempt which had been planned to coincide with the second anniversary of the Khmer Rouge takeover”.[12] When Mr. Koppe asked whether he “understood my surprise”, Mr. Boyle objected and said counsel was testifying. Judge Fenz said that this question was not appropriate. Mr. Koppe rephrased his question and the witness replied that he learned about such attacks later. At that time, he did not know more, since he was in the fishing unit at the time. There were 300 or 400 people in the fishing unit and they were not informed about the developments and plans. Mr. Koppe requested leave to present a photograph to the witness, which was granted.[13] He said that he did not recognize the person on the photograph. Mr. Koppe asked whether he had ever heard of Vorn Vet, which the witness denied. He had heard of the name Sao Phim before. “It seems to be that I met him once when he was traveling by speed boat […] together with Ta Nhim. They made visits along Tonlé Sap.” He did not know how many days they spent there, but he saw them travelling together. He saw them travelling together for one or two days, after which Sao Phim disappeared. A while later, he heard that Ta Nhim also disappeared.

Mr. Koppe said that he had talked about Ta Thout in his statement and asked him whether it was the same person like on the photograph. He replied that it was Thoeun’s father. “When he died he looked older than the one in the photo”.

Ta Thoeut, he recounted, as supervising a Khmer Rouge base at Vey Chab Mountain. He supervised the forces based on that mountain. However, he died long time ago, he said. Mr. Koppe said that they had already had substantial doubts about the person who testified in June 2015 and Hor or Thout Ham. Moving on, Mr. Koppe asked about the White Khmer, or khmer sar. The witness replied that to his knowledge, they were those who escaped from cooperatives and who tried to flee into the jungle to gather up forces in order to “fight back against the three year regime, especially fighting back against the Southwest Force, because the Southwest Force were considered the life and death force.”

Division 1 commander Chhorn was chief of the regiment before. He was below Ren. He did not know what rank he had in particular, because they did not talk about ranks at the time.

 

Next, Mr. Boyle put questions to the witness. He wanted to know whether he ever had any formal education as a child. He spent around half a year studying, but the country faced “chaos” and he lived in the forest until 1975. He spent two years and a half studying in total. He stopped studying in 1965. He engaged in fighting against the Lon Nol soldiers. He quit the army in 1970. He did not join the economics unit in Vey Chab – where he was between 1970 and 1971. He held “a position that was equal to the battalion”. He was under the Northwest Zone forces before 1975.[14] At this time, it was “simply a Zone force”. When he left the army, he joined the section. He was in the deputy chief of the economics and logistic units. Ta Soun was his superior. The fishing unit was responsible for fishing and fermenting fish to supply them to soldiers. The fish was not distributed to civilians, but only to soldiers of the zone. Civilians were supplied with fish by other units.

The hearing was adjourned. It will continue tomorrow, October 18, 2016, at 9 am with the testimony of 2-TCW-1037, followed by an expert.

 

[1] E3/10681, at answer 58.

[2] At 00757532 (EN), 00858342 (KH), 00849437 (FR).

[3] E445/1

[4] E3/9580, at answer 2.

[5] E3/1170, 00602544 (EN), 00443016 (KH), 06544895 (FR).

[6] E3/9580, at answer 46.

[7] presented at 11:23.

[8] At 01330517 (EN), 01326314 (KH).

[9] At 01330557 (EN), 01326340 (KH).

[10] E3/10666, at 01330580 (EN), 01326355 (KH).

[11] E3/4202, at 00757532 (EN), 00858342 (KH), 00849437 (KH).

[12] E3/1385, at 00168287 (EN).

[13] At P004008155.

[14] E3/10666, at 01330525-26 (EN), 01326319 (KH).

 

Featured Image: Witness 2-TCW-1037 (ECCC: Flickr).