Arrests in the Northwest Zone

A former messenger of Ruos Nhim, anonymous witness 2-TCW-920, testified about the arrests of high-ranking cadres in his area. Witness Nuon Trech then continued his testimony that he had commenced yesterday. He spoke about his imprisonment at an office and his assignment at Kampong Chhnang.

 

Ruos Nhim

In the morning session 93 year old anonymous witness 2-TCW-920 testified.

The floor was handed to the Co-Prosecution. International Senior Assistant Prosecutor Vincent de Wilde asked when he joined the revolution and for which leader he worked. He replied that he joined in 1966. Mr. de Wilde said that he mentioned the 1950s.[1] He replied that he was with the issarak movement during the 1950s and joined the Khmer Rouge in around 1966. He was assigned to work for Ruos Nhim and Nuon Chea as a messenger between Phnom Penh and Battambang. Ruos Nhim appointed him for this task. He would deliver messages to Nuon Chea. Mr. de Wilde read an excerpt of his statement which indicated that he was a messenger between 1960 and 1966.[2] He replied that he fled to the forest “after the information was leaked.”

“They trusted me. That’s why I was assigned a messenger,” the witness said. He started hiding in the forest in 1966. He confirmed that both leaders trusted him also during Democratic Kampuchea. He became a party member. Nuon Chea was in Phnom Penh at the time. When Mr. de Wilde asked who had the higher rank: Ruos Nhim or Nuon Chea, Defense Counsel Victor Koppe objected and said that there was a third alternative, namely that both were equal in rank. Ruos Nhim was “closer to the ground”, while Nuon Chea was in Phnom Penh. Mr. de Wilde asked whether Nuon Chea came to visit Ruos Nhim.[3] The witness replied that he came by train and disembarked in the upper part of Battambang.

Mr. de Wilde asked about Siev Heng.[4] He had said that he was executed in 1975. He replied that “it was felt” that Siev Heng had betrayed. “They no longer trusted one another and there was an order to smash them.” He still communicated with others when he hid in the forest. When he came out of the forest, he became chairman of a school association. “Schools were to be created.” He was part of Au Dambang 1 commune. “We won the victory against the Lon Nol group.” He was chairman of Au Dambang Region 3.[5] Ruos was in charge of the Northwest Zone.

Ta Phat assigned him to take care of Au Dambang. Heng Khieu and Ruos Nhim were leaders of Region 3. Mr. de Wilde asked whether he recalled Ta Cham and Ta Hoeun.[6] There were killings to the east of his location, but “nothing happened at my location.” Even those colonels with five stars “could survive”, he said. “Those who worked and lived with me could do so very peacefully.” Mr. de Wilde said that he had stated that Ta Cham was “a very cruel man.” He recounted: “He was chasing those people who went into the forest, particularly those who opposed the plan.” Mr. de Wilde asked whether Ruos Nhim said that officials were enemies.[7] The witness denied this and said that they could live together peacefully as long as they did as they were told. They killed each other in other parts, for example in Sector 4. Ruos Nhim had said, the witness recalled, that “as long as they could accommodate”, they could “live together peacefully”. He did not know about other areas. “As long as they did not oppose us, we would protect them.”

Mr. de Wilde inquired what happened to Ta Hoeun. He replied that Ta Hoeun was removed by Ruos Nhim later on. Ruos Nhim mistrusted Ta Hoeun. He did not know where Ta Hoeun was sent to. Mr. de Wilde inquired whether he knew back then that Ta Hoeun was sent to Phnom Penh. He answered that he disappeared, but that he did not know where he was sent to.

Mr. de Wilde asked what happened to Ta Chham. He replied that he disappeared as well, but did not know where he was sent to. Mr. de Wilde asked whether he was a leader at Kamping Puoy Dam. He replied that people from different places were sent there, but that Ta Chham was not a leader.

Mr. de Wilde inquired whether he knew Ta Ngon. He had said in his statement that he died in 1975.[8] He wanted to know the reason for this. He replied that he rose to divisional commander.

 

Cadres

A person would be removed hen when they did not obey orders. When Mr. de Wilde asked whether Ruos Nhim received orders from the upper echelon to arrest people, Mr. Koppe objected and said that Ruos Nhim was the upper echelon and that it was not clear whether it was possible that he received orders at all. Mr. de Wilde asked whether he received orders from Phnom Penh or Nuon Chea. Mr. de Wilde read an extract, in which it was said that people would implicate others due to torture. These implications would be perceived as true. [9] Mr. de Wilde asked whether he had heard at the time that the process of torture followed by denunciation occurred in Phnom Penh. He replied that he did not know.[10] Mr. de Wilde asked whether Angkar was assumed to be always right when they arrested someone. “There was no arbitrary arrest,” he said. “They had to be monitored.”

Mr. de Wilde inquired whether he knew someone called Ta Vanh, Secretary of Sector 1, and whether he survived the regime. The witness did not recall him. Mr. de Wilde inquired whether he knew what happened after Ruos Nhim’s arrest.[11] He replied that he could not recall. He did not remember Ren.  Neither was he familiar with Kou, Deputy Secretary of Sector 3. Mr. de Wilde inquired whether he knew a person called Hear, Secretary of Phnom Sampeau. The witness had not met this person. He had not heard of Chan Oeun, Secretary of Mongkol Borey District. Mr. de Wilde said that they had the confessions of these people. They were dated prior to the arrest of Ruos Nhim. [12] In his statement he had mentioned Vuk , Souy and Heang. He did not know where Seang was, as they were separated. He never went to other locations and therefore did not know much about other people’s responsibilities. Mr. de Wilde pointed to two list of prisoners who had entered S-21 in 1977.[13] He said that it mentioned Suy, Heang[14]

He did not know about Heong. However, he did know Chhnang, the child of Ruos. He got married to the child of Sao Phim. Mr. de Wilde asked whether Ta Hoeng was arrested when Ruos Nhim was the chief of the Northwest Zone. Ruos Nhim was arrested by the Southwest, he said, “because it was said that Ruos Nhim joined hands with the yuon.” The Southwest arrived after Ta Mok and Ta tit. Mr. de Wilde inquired whether he attended meetings in which this betrayal was relayed to him. He replied that Ruos Nhim was arrested by the Southwest, but that he did not attend any meetings. The Northwest was accused of betraying Angkar. He was under his command and did not know the accusations against Ruos Nhim. He did not know how Ruos Nhim could betray Angkar.[15] The witness himself was removed from his location. “We arrested each other.”

Mr. de Wilde quoted the book by Thet Sambath and Gina Chon, in which Nuon Chea was quoted saying that he read the confessions of Ruos Nhim and Koy Thuon and that the content of the confesssions were true.[16] He asked whether the witness knew why the leaders believe in the prisoner’s confessions. He replied that he did not believe that Ruos Nhim betrayed. “In fact that was a double cross by Khmer people. They mistreated each other.” The Southwest took over the Northwest. “The Southwest came to purge the Northwest.” With this, the Senior Assistant Prosecutor concluded his line of questioning. Neither of the defense teams had any questions. Trial Chamber President Nil Nonn said that “It is very good news” and dismissed the witness.

 

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Back to Witness Nuon Trech

Koppe asked him who told him that he would be taken to a hospital.[17] Senior Assistant Prosecutor Dale Lysak objected to the comment that the witness had said that he was at Tuol Sleng. He said that the witness had said at 4 pm that he was at Tuol Sleng Prison Office. The witness said that he was brought to the prison office before being brought to Tuol Sleng. His chairman told him that the witness had “nothing to do” with the mistakes and requested him back to be refashioned. He had said that he thought that he was going to the international hospital office. He now clarified that Bong Salao told him so. Upon the witness’s arrival Salao was arrested and sent away.

Mr. Koppe asked about Yeat, who the witness had identified as the deputy chief of the hospital. Mr. Koppe wanted to know whether he was not rather the chief of logistics of Battalion 314. He answered that he was his direct supervisor and chief of logistics in Battalion 314. He did not see him anymore, so he asked Bong Salao about the witness. He wanted to take him back for re-fashioning, as the witness had not committed any mistakes. Ol was the chief of the prison office. He was in charge for forwarding people further to Tuol Sleng. He learned later that he was the one who sent people to Tuol Sleng. There were guards, cuffs and shackles. They were prohibited to move to other places. People were arrested and disappeared. The photograph was taken at an office. He thought that this photograph would be included in his biography.

Most of them were from Division 502. Mr. Koppe inquired whether it was perhaps called S-22. He was not aware of this. Mr. Koppe referred to witness Sreng Ty who had spoken about S-22 and located it close to Tyk La Ak School.[18] The witness could not recall this.

 

Mr. Koppe then inquired where he went after. He explained that he was re-fashioned at Kampong Chhnang. He had to carry soil and burn explosives. He had to work from 4 am until 12 pm and resumed his work at 1 pm. Cadres said that the people who had been refashioned had to join the resistance against Vietnam.

Mr. Koppe wanted to know whether he was in Unit 4, which the witness did not know. He was hospitalized as he was injured and then sent to Phnom Penh. Mr. Koppe said that he had said in his statement that he was sent from Suong to another place and was part of Division 4.[19] He replied that he wrapped wounds at Memot. Some traitors at the airfield were to counter the attacks. Mr. Koppe said he did not understand his statement that he was “forcibly” moved, as he would have to obey orders either way. He explained that they were told that the Vietnamese would enter the country and kill them if they did not counter the Vietnamese troops. Mr. Koppe inquired whether it was correct that he had always been a soldier within Division 310 until 1979. He replied that he was hospitalized and no longer belonged to the division. He spent around two months in a hospital. They were not told which division they were part of before he was sent to Kampong Chhnang.

He recounted that he was told that the worksite was used for refashioning. He asked whether in the meeting there were members of other battalions as well. They broadcasted over loudspeakers that their commanders were traitors and that they had to refashion themselves. He only knew those who worked for the logistic battalion. He heard that Oeun had planned to attack Phnom Penh. This was the first time he heard this. He did not hear anything about this matter before. Mr. Koppe read a statement, in which it was said that Sao Phim was in the East Zone and Koy Thuon in the North Zone, who both planned to attack Phnom Penh. He said this did not jog his memory. Mr. Koppe quoted his statement.[20] The witness replied that they were warned that they would be slaughtered if the Vietnamese advanced. He was treating wounded people there, but was hospitalized himself. They were fighting at Trapeang Thlong before this. He said that spreading this fear could have been a policy of the Khmer Rouge. He did not encounter anyone who had witnessed this. With this, Mr. Koppe concluded his line of questioning.

 

Division 310 and Commanders

The floor was handed to the Co-Prosecution. Mr. Lysak presented a biography to the witness and inquired whether he had drawn this up.[21] He confirmed this and said that this was made to join the revolutionary movement. The first two pages identified him as a medic and as being 21 years old at the time of the biography. He replied that he could not recall when he made this biography. Mr. Lysak asked who presided over the meeting at which the tape recording of Division 310 Commander Oeun was played. He did not know the names of the new commander. Mr. Lysak quoted his statement, in which he had said that commanders and combatants from 310 attended the meeting and that Ngor made an announcement.[22] He answered that he did not know Ngor and that he was a new person from the Southwest. Oeun had been arrested for around two weeks before a replacement came from the Southwest Zone.

Mr. Lysak said that the S-21 list showed that Oeun entered S-21 on 19 February 1977.[23] He did not know the details when the replacement came. The arrest took place in the Central Zone and Division 310. The meeting lasted three days. Mr. Lysak presented the details of former medic Yorn who worked at the same hospital as the witness.[24] He replied that he knew him. This person had talked about a three day meeting, in which the arrest of Oeun was announced.[25] The meeting, according to this person, was first chaired by Son Sen and then by Ngor. He said that Ngor chaired the meeting. He never saw Son Sen, but had heard of his name. People disappeared after they were transferred. Others told him that they were arrested. He witnessed the cases of his supervisors Nym and Salao: “They came to call them away. I saw them being tied up with my own eyes.” He had been transferred when the Southwest took control.

 

Arrests

Mr. Lysak asked whether the people who arrested his superiors were armed. He recounted that Nym was tied up and arrested. Mr. Lysak said that a few Battalion 314 cadres appeared in the S-21 records. He pointed to a person called Va By who was identified as the secretary of Battalion 314.[26] The witness could not recall this. He could only recall Cheat and Kran. Mr. Lysak inquired about Mak Yi Huong, alias Nym, Battalion Office Assistant.[27] He confirmed that he knew Nym. He was responsible for the logistic unit in Battalion 314. Mr. Lysak wanted to know whether any of the people who worked at Preah Ket Melea. Mr. Trech said that some disappeared. He heard from other people that the wives of commanders were also taken along with her husband.

Mr. Lysak read out Yorn’s statement, who had said that the commander’s wife was also arrested.[28] He had seen the wife. He was told to wait for Angkar and ordered to remain at one place. The room was locked, so he could not go anywhere. He could look outside, however. Mr. Lysak read out his statement, in which he had said that he slept there over night and that he was provided meals in the room.[29] He replied that if he did not go he would have no meal. Yeat showed up but only told him when the witness was released. He came at noon time and after he had solved the matters, he left with them. The buildings were locked and it was located on an open field. Mr. Lysak asked whether it was correct that he did not know which office he spent the two days at.[30] He replied that he had “a suspicion” because the division was accused of being a traitorous. Mr. Lysak asked whether it was correct that he thought that some people were further sent to Tuol Sleng, but that they were not necessarily from Tuol Sleng.[31] Mr. Trech said that there was an iron fence and there were armed guards. When he was brought to the prison office, the entrance was closed. The office was the location where the biography was collected. He never went to Tuol Sleng after 1979.

Mr. Lysak asked where Anlong Kar Yan was and what he was doing at the time. He replied that he was arrested while he was still a medic. Some farmers were operating the rice mills. The headquarters of Battalion 314 was in Phnom Penh. Mr. Lysak wanted to know whether this was the same location where he was also sent to do rice farming. He replied that it was a bit further.

 

Kampong Chhnang

Mr. Lysak asked what he understood it to mean to be sent to Kampong Chhnang airport site for refashioning. He was refashioned for three months before he was told that Vietnam attacked Kampuchea and that they had to attack Vietnam. They built an airport in Kampong Chhnang. He was told to burn the explosives in the mountain to break the stones and build the airport. One of the comrades was specialized in burning the explosives. The witness was responsible for breaking the rocks. “The explosives burned like a bomb.” Some people were injured or killed when they were close to the explosives. Some were digging the dirt and did not pay attention to the stones. Others were told and did not get injured. He started his work at 4am. The tasks depended on the supervisor. On some days, many were injured, while on others not many explosives were burned and not many people got injured.[32] Mr. Lysak presented photographs to the witness. The witness did not recognize the mountain in the background and said that this was not the location where he worked.[33] A whole was made into the mountain. There were people making a tunnel and a runway in order to allow the plane to land. The second photograph depicted a wall in the background. He replied that there was a hill and that the airport was not completed. He recalled that there was a small wall, but he could not recall a big one. He recognized the whole that was the beginning of a tunnel.[34] The tunnel was about ten meters deep. Mr. Lysak asked how high the tunnel was. He could not recall this. They had to run before the explosion, but sometimes they did not run fast enough to a safe place. He heard that people died sometimes but did not witness dead bodies himself.

The President adjourned the hearing. It will continue tomorrow at 9 am with the testimony of Mr. Trech.

 

[1] E3/9473, at answer 2.

[2] E3/9473.

[3] E3/9084, at p. 17 (FR), 23 (EN), 00057650 (KH).

[4] E3/9084, at p. 18 (EN), 00057640 (KH).

[5] At p. 48, 00057670 (KH).

[6] E3/9373, at answer 9.

[7] E3/9473, at answers 27 and 28.

[8] E3/9084, at 40-41.

[9] E3/10762, at page 15.

[10] E3/9084, at page 72 (FR), 97 (EN), 00057713 (KH).

[11] E3/2285, S-21 List, Smashed on 17 October 1977, at 00873644 (EN), 0009307 (KH).

[12] E3/9084, at 00057680 (KH), p. 84 (EN), 60 (FR).

[13] E3/2285, at 00873637 (EN), 00009304 (KH).

[14] E3/1842, at 00183855 (EN), 00870455 (FR), 00040024 (KH).

[15] E3/9084.

[16] E3/4202, at 00849433 (FR), 00858336 (KH).

[17] E3/7357, at 00251254 (EN), 00291004 (FR), 00019647 (KH).

[18] E3/5263, 00282225 (EN), 00283350 (FR).

[19] E3/7537, at 00251258 (EN), 00291009 (FR), 00019651 (KH).

[20] At 00291010 (FR), 00019651 (KH).

[21] E3/7537, at 00019461-68 (KH).

[22] E3/7877, at 003469748 (EN).

[23] Number 8135.

[24] E3/5597.

[25] E3/5597, at 00343726 (KH), 00411791-92 (FR), 00345959-60 (EN).

[26] E3/2592

[27] E3/2592.

[28] E3/5497, at 00343724-26 (KH), 00411790-91 (FR), 00345959 (EN).

[29] E3/7537, at 00019647 (KH), 00291005-06 (FR), 00251255 (EN).

[30] At 00342436 (KH), 00411784 (EN).

[31] E3/8063.95.

[32] E3/7877, at 00342437 (KH), 00346979 (EN), 00411785-86 (FR).

[33] E3/8041, at 00384449 (KH).

[34] E3/8055.